Aw, get a tiny piezo speaker instead. We don't use frog's legs as activators any more, since Galvani.
nvader1 month ago
Another thought: it seems to me not out of the ordinary that with access to our own brains, someone could literally "play them like a fiddle". This suggests that we should start to enact laws that decision making politicians should be required to be air-gapped.
viraptor1 month ago
The closer we get to that, the more we can watch Ghost in the Shell as a prophecy of things to come.
jagged-chisel1 month ago
And because anyone can run and become elected to office, perhaps we should all just be air-gapped.
croemer1 month ago
> The experiments did not harm the cicadas, co-author Naoto Nishida, now at the University of Tokyo, told New Scientist. "Some of them wanted to run away," he said. "Others were like, 'OK, use my abdomen.'"
This is hard to believe. They stabbed them with electrodes, surely that does some harm.
bitwize1 month ago
Horrors beyond human comprehension, got it. We know that arthropods can meaningfully feel pain. Turning living insects into a biological Floppotron is some Dr. Moreau shit that will earn you, at best, an IgNobel -- and I'm not even sure the IgNobel committee would want to draw positive attention to this kind of work. That said, I'm sure that The Fifth Element style spy cockroaches will start appearing in homes and offices courtesy your local intelligence agency before the decade is out.
smt881 month ago
> We know that arthropods can meaningfully feel pain
We don't know that. They're capable of detecting and avoiding harmful stimuli, but that doesn't mean they have the subjective experience of pain.
This research also seems quite tame compared to the trillions or quadrillions of insects we torture to death using pesticides when growing our food or protecting our homes.
hydrogen78001 month ago
>They're capable of detecting and avoiding harmful stimuli, but that doesn't mean they have the subjective experience of pain.
This reminds me of "Consider the Lobster" by David Foster Wallace. I remember being pretty convinced by his argument that lobsters do indeed feel pain when boiled alive, which was interesting because, as I recall, he argued with simple logic rather than using any biological basis. It may have been as simple as avoiding harm = experiencing pain. I suppose this does not necessarily follow. I'll have to read it again some time.
I don't understand the "emergency warning" use case.
InfiniteLoup1 month ago
This could simply be an alibi to obtain funding or appease an ethics committee (if there is one involved). It's become a meme to label research as a "search and rescue" application to justify working on armed cyberdogs with wall-penetrating radar.
rozab1 month ago
It's just xkcd 2128, it's something shameless researchers apparently feel obligated to say no matter how ridiculous it is
Torturing insects to make worse-than-MIDI music is gross.
Like, I dunno, record lots of cicada sounds and SIMULATE it?
These researchers should be ashamed of themselves. And it wasn't other-life-saving reasons, but shitty music.
debugnik1 month ago
They do claim to have a better motive, but it's a fairly weak one:
> with the idea that cyborg cicadas might one day be used to transmit warning messages during emergencies
dheera1 month ago
Academic "motivations" are just there to get papers accepted.
Papers are just there to get tenure and graduate.
Most of academia isn't after real science anymore.
msla1 month ago
I've lived somewhere with cicadas. If their drone begins to tell me things, I'm checking into a mental hospital for a schizophrenia workup and/or so the massive bug monster doesn't eat me.
cyberax1 month ago
> to transmit warning messages during emergencies
In other words, if you see insects with electrodes that are moving towards you: RUN!
01HNNWZ0MV43FF1 month ago
Oh like in "When They Cry"
poly2it1 month ago
Many seem worried about the safety of the insects. An author responded as mentioned in the article.
> The experiments did not harm the cicadas, co-author Naoto Nishida, now at the University of Tokyo, told New Scientist. "Some of them wanted to run away," he said. "Others were like, 'OK, use my abdomen.'"
bqmjjx0kac1 month ago
I don't think arthropods are capable of informed consent, despite what the author claims.
poly2it1 month ago
I'm new to HN, and if you're downvoting this, I'd like to know how to better contribute to the discussion.
Aw, get a tiny piezo speaker instead. We don't use frog's legs as activators any more, since Galvani.
Another thought: it seems to me not out of the ordinary that with access to our own brains, someone could literally "play them like a fiddle". This suggests that we should start to enact laws that decision making politicians should be required to be air-gapped.
The closer we get to that, the more we can watch Ghost in the Shell as a prophecy of things to come.
And because anyone can run and become elected to office, perhaps we should all just be air-gapped.
> The experiments did not harm the cicadas, co-author Naoto Nishida, now at the University of Tokyo, told New Scientist. "Some of them wanted to run away," he said. "Others were like, 'OK, use my abdomen.'"
This is hard to believe. They stabbed them with electrodes, surely that does some harm.
Horrors beyond human comprehension, got it. We know that arthropods can meaningfully feel pain. Turning living insects into a biological Floppotron is some Dr. Moreau shit that will earn you, at best, an IgNobel -- and I'm not even sure the IgNobel committee would want to draw positive attention to this kind of work. That said, I'm sure that The Fifth Element style spy cockroaches will start appearing in homes and offices courtesy your local intelligence agency before the decade is out.
> We know that arthropods can meaningfully feel pain
We don't know that. They're capable of detecting and avoiding harmful stimuli, but that doesn't mean they have the subjective experience of pain.
This research also seems quite tame compared to the trillions or quadrillions of insects we torture to death using pesticides when growing our food or protecting our homes.
>They're capable of detecting and avoiding harmful stimuli, but that doesn't mean they have the subjective experience of pain.
This reminds me of "Consider the Lobster" by David Foster Wallace. I remember being pretty convinced by his argument that lobsters do indeed feel pain when boiled alive, which was interesting because, as I recall, he argued with simple logic rather than using any biological basis. It may have been as simple as avoiding harm = experiencing pain. I suppose this does not necessarily follow. I'll have to read it again some time.
Direct YouTube link here:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p49K0L2fSig
I don't understand the "emergency warning" use case.
This could simply be an alibi to obtain funding or appease an ethics committee (if there is one involved). It's become a meme to label research as a "search and rescue" application to justify working on armed cyberdogs with wall-penetrating radar.
It's just xkcd 2128, it's something shameless researchers apparently feel obligated to say no matter how ridiculous it is
https://xkcd.com/2128
The bigger tragedy here is choosing Pachelbel's Canon.
What would you have chosen instead?
Rage Against The Machine - Killing In the Name
Now you chirp when they shock you
stuck you I won't chirp when they shock me!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4jmnAA_foUI
Yuck.
Torturing insects to make worse-than-MIDI music is gross.
Like, I dunno, record lots of cicada sounds and SIMULATE it?
These researchers should be ashamed of themselves. And it wasn't other-life-saving reasons, but shitty music.
They do claim to have a better motive, but it's a fairly weak one:
> with the idea that cyborg cicadas might one day be used to transmit warning messages during emergencies
Academic "motivations" are just there to get papers accepted.
Papers are just there to get tenure and graduate.
Most of academia isn't after real science anymore.
I've lived somewhere with cicadas. If their drone begins to tell me things, I'm checking into a mental hospital for a schizophrenia workup and/or so the massive bug monster doesn't eat me.
> to transmit warning messages during emergencies
In other words, if you see insects with electrodes that are moving towards you: RUN!
Oh like in "When They Cry"
Many seem worried about the safety of the insects. An author responded as mentioned in the article.
> The experiments did not harm the cicadas, co-author Naoto Nishida, now at the University of Tokyo, told New Scientist. "Some of them wanted to run away," he said. "Others were like, 'OK, use my abdomen.'"
I don't think arthropods are capable of informed consent, despite what the author claims.
I'm new to HN, and if you're downvoting this, I'd like to know how to better contribute to the discussion.