The country may be collapsing but don't worry. Hackernews' anti controversy systems will ensure nothing gets to the front page to force you to confront anything uncomfortable
> UC Berkeley gives personal information for 150 students and staff to government ...
Why is this being argued as a bad thing? If there is one constant in even mild socialism it's that government has access (and uses) everyone's data, exactly for the reason Trump is using it.
This happens, as a matter of course, where I'm from (Northwest Europe). Oh and sure, when I was studying it was mostly to find actual fascists (you know, actually openly pro-Hitler), but I've been told this has expanded. Schools are far from the only ones who do this, the government "youth houses" do the same (report the political ideas of everyone who comes by to the police commissioner. They have forms and everything. Extremists or thieves are to be reported immediately). Same with any kind of social support. Only the rich get to be fascist.
saubeidl7 days ago
It's not just anti-controversy systems. It's deliberate censorship efforts by digital brownshirts.
sidibe7 days ago
The YC leadership is the people doing the collapsing. Theyve been living for Elon retweets and replies for a while
JumpCrisscross7 days ago
Source?
walls7 days ago
The front page of this site. Just look at what dang goes out of his way to make sure stays up.
sidibe6 days ago
Follow Garry Tan on X
Talanes3 days ago
Not everyone can do that, some of use were blocked by him before we'd ever heard his name.
JumpCrisscross6 days ago
> Follow Garry Tan on X
...do you have an example? I have no interest in following him.
Also, Gary Tan resembles Elon Musk perhaps only in their shared political ineptitude. (Unlike Musk, Tan seems to be aware of this limitation.)
m-watson7 days ago
I would love to see dang weigh in here just out of curiosity AND see how many people or if people are using the vouch mechanism if they can. Because this post doesn't have an insignificant upvote count and has actual conversation happening in the comments.
uncircle7 days ago
Don't use the vouch mechanism, it's a trap. I've had it disabled on my other account because I vouched "flame-bait" and thus I was revoked of the privileges, as dang explained to me via email, and I quote: "we took vouching privileges away from your account because you vouched for too many comments that were unsubstantive and/or flamebait and/or otherwise broke the site guidelines"
The Hacker News stance of "users can flag posts, it's none of our doing" I bet is a complete fabrication, and it's conveniently used by the moderators to hide hot-button topics. Not saying that's necessarily bad, but I feel the moderation team could be a little more honest with their "censorship" process, instead of trying to convince us it's all an organic, user-driven process.
You can vouch these posts at your own risk; just make sure you toe the party line, or you'll have the privilege revoked.
r7217 days ago
Do you still have "vouch" button (with no effect) or was it removed from UI?
lcnPylGDnU4H9OF7 days ago
> if people are using the vouch mechanism if they can
Nobody can vouch the post right now because it is not [dead]. At this point, if one wants the flag to be removed, the only way is to email hn@ycombinator.com for them to remove it manually at their discretion.
> Because this post doesn't have an insignificant upvote count and has actual conversation happening in the comments.
This isn't really relevant to the post being [flagged]. That happens when enough people click "flag" on the post. It will go to [flagged][dead] first, then people can vouch and it will drop them both, then, if more people flag it, it will become [flagged] again. It might be more complicated than that but I've seen that pattern a fair amount and I'm pretty sure the only way for a post to be [flagged] is for it to be, well, flagged.
m-watson7 days ago
Thanks for that I was mistaken about how the vouch process worked. I thought vouching could work for flagged as well since fagged can lead to removal.
mitch3x37 days ago
[flagged]
duxup7 days ago
There are a lot of articles I don't care for on HN. Outside straight advertising and scams, I don't flag them. That's life, stuff you don't want to see sometimes.
Sometimes I even open those articles wondering what everyone is talking about and sometimes it turns out to be worthwhile, sometimes not.
Karrot_Kream7 days ago
It's not the articles themselves. It's the quality of the commentary that comes from them. IMO these highly charged topics are very corrosive to the culture of a site. The people that post the hyper emotional comments on these posts and get rewarded in upvotes start doing the same thing throughout the site. Also in my experience if I post a low effort political comment I get much more karma from the crowd than a high effort technical post. What does that do for content incentives?
It's my belief that the recent growth in both user count and highly emotionally charged low quality content on this site is directly proportional to the amount of hot button issues on this site. A decent amount of folks use this site as yet another culture war front.
IMO these kinds of discussions need much, much more moderation than HN does to be productive. That's not a knock on HN moderation, it was never meant to be a structured debate platform. But taking a lightly moderated site and inundating it with hot button high emotion posts will not go well.
duxup6 days ago
Yeah I'm not a fan of the emotional control in those topics either.
Having said that important topics tend to be that way, because they are important. The idea they shouldn't happen because of that is not a good route.
jleyank7 days ago
Isn’t it easier to just put your fingers in your ears, shut your eyes, and go la-la-la? Some of us prefer to see what’s going on, particularly when the HN community might be people making the situation worse. Not every bit of software is helpful, and “data”in the wrong hands can be fatal.
Jensson7 days ago
> Some of us prefer to see what’s going on
And you can see that anywhere else, why should every site talk about the same things?
saubeidl7 days ago
Because American democracy is literally being dismantled as we speak???
Jensson7 days ago
But this event was already covered, there is no need to also have this opinion piece as well. You can just read this thread which isn't flagged:
But many of us have several sources of news, and we use HN explicitly because it is not another outrage-based social news aggregator. I don’t want to see HN turn into Reddit.
I flagged this post as well. I don’t think HN needs political commentary on news unless it is particularly insightful. It’s explicitly against the guidelines. I didn’t flag Paul Krugman’s article today because, while political, it wasn’t just a political news softball. This doesn’t add much to the world’s overall understanding at this point.
Does reading the 6th article about Kimmel today change the fact that “democracy is literally being dismantled?”
cloverich7 days ago
That's literally every other site. The reason you can't see high quality HN style comments on those sites, is because they don't block stuff like this. And quality goes exactly where you'd expect. You can't get quality commentary on charged political topics on a mostly unmoderated online forum. You need dedicated groups and in depth moderation.
Like it or not life does go on regardless of political complex and so long as we're working, we need more than _just_ politics in our news feeds. That's what HN is.
mingus887 days ago
I don’t use any other social media site. I use this one because I want to have meaningful discussions on things relating to hacker culture
And what could be more relevant to hacker culture than authoritarian takeovers? Is not the entire hacker spirit one that pushes back against someone who tells you that you can’t do X or Y?
How long until the administration turns its focus from late night hosts to hackers who are also publishing things the administration does not want you to know?
soraminazuki7 days ago
> hackers who are also publishing things the administration does not want you to know
As much as I'd like to tell you otherwise, whistleblowers have consistently been treated terribly even before we all were even born.
Yes, the situation is worse now in all sorts of ways, but it was already rock bottom when it came to the treatment of whistleblowers.
sterlind7 days ago
the topic of government censorship is highly relevant to technology, like it or not. the FCC was involved, so this is relevant to those who rely on FCC licenses.
dfxm127 days ago
You have to work hard to find a flagged thread. You also have to work hard to come into a tread you don't want to see and post something this compared to just hiding it.
pixxel7 days ago
[dead]
RickJWagner7 days ago
[flagged]
seydor7 days ago
It s more than that. The fact that they did not conceal that they publicly coerced the tv station to fire him serves as a warning to other media.
ABC/Disney made the choice to pull Kimmel, bent at the knee in fear of losing their broadcast license. That decision itself is one worth questioning...what if they didn't? Would the FCC actually do it? If they did, how many lawsuits would come their way since that's the greatest infringement of the First Amendment the US has ever witnessed? Wouldn't ABC, the public, and the First Amendment win out massively at the end?
What if that bit of libertarian anarchy played out?
ABC ignores the backlash and threats, and keeps Kimmel on the air, maybe even encouraging speech against those bullies and hatred. Then FCC pulls their license, but ABC keeps broadcasting. Their pirate broadcasts would escalate both sides even further: stoking a great groundswell of support for the freedom of speech from liberals/the left, a storm of legal battles representing We The People v. the Government would form, and a massive (possibly violent) outcry from far-right conservatives and nationalists. What happens then would redefine our nation. Would corporations back ABC and capitalism retake the reins, and grassroots efforts steer the misguided Right back to normalcy? Or would an explosive sabotage and a bloody battle over the fate of our nation take place before any progress, or regression, would happen?
As much of a work of fiction as that sounds, it's almost more believable given the timeline we're already on.
Synaesthesia7 days ago
I can't believe he got cancelled for such a mild statement.
karakot7 days ago
When you get cancelled by the goverment it's censorship.
saubeidl7 days ago
The right wing has exposed their hypocrisy on free speech and cancel culture for the whole world to see. It was never about principles, it was always just self-serving agitprop.
gjsman-10007 days ago
All you had to do was look at Reddit or BlueSky after the shooting; and I think they popped a nerve.
In the meantime, the CEOs of Discord, Reddit, Twitch, and Steam have been casually "invited" to Congress to have a little chat this October. Personally, I'm expecting Discord's CEO (considering his background at McKinsey, need for blame shifting, spotting the most vulnerable person in the room) to make Huffman look like an idiot and start acting like a Redditor. There's no way Huffman manages to overcome his lack of interview experience, 20 years of Reddit brain, and decade of being the CEO responsible for everything, when needled.
red-iron-pine7 days ago
facebook, apple, palantir, twitter have all bent the knee or are otherwise locked down by leadership -- they will tow the line.
these are the next steps in locking down the online discussion realm.
they will eventually go after places like tumblr and roblox next.
suzdude7 days ago
So Hegseth should have been pulled from Fox News after laughing at jokes about Paul Pelosi's attacker, right? He should have been forced to resign in shame?
JumpCrisscross7 days ago
But the Twitter files!
throw3108227 days ago
The twitter files were also bad. Not as bad as the stuff Trump is doing, but still bad.
JumpCrisscross7 days ago
> twitter files were also bad. Not as bad as the stuff Trump is doing
The Twitter files were ambiguous. The FCC chair publicly threatening to pull a network’s licenses over their content is not.
Anyone who voiced up about the Twitter files who hasn’t about Carr is a partisan hack.
throw3108226 days ago
Absolutely. This is pure fascism. But let's not make the mistake of pretending there are zero faults on the other side, even if of smaller magnitude compared to this.
Ancapistani5 days ago
I was very hesitant to comment on this, due to the current political climate - but I’m going to do so anyhow, and ask that you keep in mind that while I associate more with the right than the left, I’m an Anarcho-Capitalist. I’m an outsider to both sides, and my intent here is to share an observation because I believe it’s relevant.
From what I’m seeing in right-wing spaces, this is much more than hypocrisy. Much of the right has made the explicit decision to abandon their principles because they believe that the left will ultimately attempt to destroy them when they regain the White House.
Whether that belief is accurate or not, they seem to be willing to give Trump significantly more latitude to suppress the left as a result of it.
saubeidl5 days ago
Interestingly, I have beliefs pretty opposite to yours - Titoist would best describe them.
I believe Biden should've aggressively suppressed the right to avoid the exact scenario we now find ourselves in.
Imo they are proving that belief right.
Ancapistani1 day ago
Interesting!
The right has a very similar corresponding argument; their predictions have also been coming true.
I wonder if that’s a side effect of the current political discourse or the intention of whatever or whomever is driving it.
josefritzishere7 days ago
The most enduring quality of fascism so far is how pervasively stupid it is. I fear for the future.
Synaesthesia7 days ago
We have to fight against this.
eth0up7 days ago
Man, I lean right. Always will even if I fall off a cliff. But the main reason I do is the Republic and Constitution. Free speech is sacred, and I think Jimmy is a wanker. But I'll be damned if I silence the guy, or don't defend his right to be a wanker. So yeah, this is going to dark places.
raxxorraxor6 days ago
Then there is a lot of work to do. In Europe you would be brushed of with "hate is no opinion". A culture that was nurtured by the loudest opposition to Trump.
sonofhans7 days ago
This is one of the reasons that large-scale corporate ownership of media is very bad for citizens, and very good for oppressive governments. The FCC can make one phone call to one powerful person running one large corporate entity. If the same couple corporations own all the media (almost where we are today), it’s trivial for the government to shut down one voice.
ABC doesn’t give a shit about truth, fairness, journalism, or any such fuzzy concepts. They want short-term profits and long-term media monopolies, so cancelling one comedian or another makes no difference to them.
This is what fascism actually is — a blending of corporate and government power for the benefit of both, and against the interests of citizens.
navane6 days ago
It's almost like the dictators don't choose the economic form of monopolies or oligopolies, but that these mono and oligopolies almost have to lead to government overreach. Like you said it is too easy not to govern with these knobs of they are there.
delichon7 days ago
SCOTUS ruled 6-3 last year in Murthy v. Missouri that the states lacked standing to sue the government for first amendment violations from pressuring speech platforms to moderate. I'm afraid that decision will effectively immunize the FCC from pressuring ABC in this case. The states were found not to have the necessary injury, causation, or redressability. Alito, Thomas and Gorsuch dissented.
jeffbee7 days ago
In that case, the plaintiffs lacked standing because they hadn't shown that there was an actual nexus between government action and platform action. In this case, there is no question: the government is openly demanding that the media do this.
k3107 days ago
The tech industry largely thrives on basic freedoms, especially freedom of speech, and on university innovation, both of which are under direct attack.
Those who cry that these are "no concern" of tech and Hacker News won't be happy when their projects and companies are shut down in order to do eugenics "research" or to turn their work into ways of sequestering and managing inmates of what are already concentration camps[0]
Hacker News and the industry are reduced to rubber stamps and prison administrators when basic freedoms are lost.
Nobody believes Trumps opposition to be concerned about freedom of speech or that they value it.
hellcow7 days ago
For a historical reference of another famous censorship, here’s the front page of the NY Times in Feb 1939, reporting that Goebbels ended the career of 5 actors for “witticisms” made about the Nazis: https://www.nytimes.com/1939/02/04/archives/goebbels-ends-ca...
tim3337 days ago
>Goebbels today ended the professional careers of five "Aryan" actors ... on the grounds that “in their public appearances they displayed a lack of any positive attitude toward National Socialism and therewith caused grave annoyance...
seems quite similar to Brendan Carr having Kimmel removed for a lack of positive attitude towards Trump and MAGA.
robertheadley7 days ago
He didn't even criticize Kirk. The criticism was levied against Trump / The Republican party.
red-iron-pine7 days ago
one and the same
duxup7 days ago
I remember in Murthy v. Missouri you had lawyers and politicans on the right arguing that even just a phone call to a reporter or social media company qualified as coercion. Even a few right wing SCOTUS judges agreed with them ...
Now we have every branch of government deployed by right wing politicians targeting individuals speech.
Restoring Freedom of Speech and Ending Federal Censorship
By the authority vested in me as President by the Constitution and the laws of the United States of America, and section 301 of title 3, United States Code, it is hereby ordered as follows:
Section 1. Purpose. The First Amendment to the United States Constitution, an amendment essential to the success of our Republic, enshrines the right of the American people to speak freely in the public square without Government interference. Over the last 4 years, the previous administration trampled free speech rights by censoring Americans’ speech on online platforms, often by exerting substantial coercive pressure on third parties, such as social media companies, to moderate, deplatform, or otherwise suppress speech that the Federal Government did not approve. Under the guise of combatting ‘‘misinformation,’’ ‘‘disinformation,’’ and ‘‘malinformation,’’ the Federal Government infringed on the constitutionally protected speech rights of American citizens across the United States in a manner that advanced the Government’s preferred narrative about significant matters of public debate. Government censorship of speech is intolerable in a free society.
Sec. 2. Policy. It is the policy of the United States to:
(a) secure the right of the American people to engage in constitutionally protected speech;
(b) ensure that no Federal Government officer, employee, or agent engages in or facilitates any conduct that would unconstitutionally abridge the free speech of any American citizen;
(c) ensure that no taxpayer resources are used to engage in or facilitate any conduct that would unconstitutionally abridge the free speech of any American citizen; and
(d) identify and take appropriate action to correct past misconduct by the Federal Government related to censorship of protected speech.
Sec. 3. Ending Censorship of Protected Speech. (a) No Federal department, agency, entity, officer, employee, or agent may act or use any Federal resources in a manner contrary to section 2 of this order.
bb887 days ago
Have you read the North Korean constitution?
ARTICLE 13. Citizens of the D.P.R.K. have freedom of speech, the press, association,
assembly, mass meetings and demonstration.
Citizens are guaranteed the right to organize and unite in democratic political parties, trade
unions, cooperative organizations, sports, cultural, technical, scientific and other societies.
bubbajones7 days ago
[dead]
draw_down7 days ago
[dead]
jonahbenton7 days ago
[flagged]
calmbonsai7 days ago
The FCC directly threatened to cancel broadcasting licenses of ABC affiliates unless they removed the show. This is the most direct version of government mass-media censorship I can immediately recall.
saubeidl7 days ago
How is it not, when the government threatens media so they change their stance? That's the textbook definition of censorship.
oh he was being funny , not not which means yes...lol
natural speech: "not not" = a soft "yes"
subzero067 days ago
It is.
LarsDu887 days ago
Two nots!
reop2whiskey7 days ago
[flagged]
jaybrendansmith7 days ago
Folks, it’s time to burn in all down. We have the power. We have to, enough is enough.
eth0up7 days ago
Unless the innocuous quote in tfa is what was said (I'm not sure I could believe it if so), can someone please post an exact quote of what all the fuss is about?
Kimmel: We hit some new lows over the weekend with the MAGA gang desperately
trying to characterize this kid who murdered Charlie Kirk as anything other
than one of them and doing everything they can to score political points from it.
Kimmel: In between the fingerpointing there was uh grieving on Friday. The White House
flew the flags at half staff which got some criticism but on a human level
you can see how hard the president is taking this.
Reporter: "My condolences on the loss of your friend Charlie Kirk. May I ask sir
personally, how are you holding up over the last day and a half, sir?"
POTUS47: "I think very good. And by the way, right there you see all the trucks. They've
just started construction of the new ballroom for the White House, which is
something they've been trying to get, as you know, for about 150 years, and it's
going to be a beauty."
Kimmel: Yes. He's at the fourth stage of grief, construction.
And its flagged.
The country may be collapsing but don't worry. Hackernews' anti controversy systems will ensure nothing gets to the front page to force you to confront anything uncomfortable
HN’s active page [1] is uneditorialised.
[1] https://news.ycombinator.com/active
And hidden from the top bar
It’s one of many views available that are resented on the lists link in the footer.
The real homepage
3rd Active thread today flagged:
Others: Trump designates anti-fascist Antifa movement as a terrorist organization https://www.reuters.com/world/us/trump-targets-antifa-moveme... UC Berkeley gives personal information for 150 students and staff to government https://www.dailycal.org/news/campus/uc-berkeley-turns-over-...
> UC Berkeley gives personal information for 150 students and staff to government ...
Why is this being argued as a bad thing? If there is one constant in even mild socialism it's that government has access (and uses) everyone's data, exactly for the reason Trump is using it.
This happens, as a matter of course, where I'm from (Northwest Europe). Oh and sure, when I was studying it was mostly to find actual fascists (you know, actually openly pro-Hitler), but I've been told this has expanded. Schools are far from the only ones who do this, the government "youth houses" do the same (report the political ideas of everyone who comes by to the police commissioner. They have forms and everything. Extremists or thieves are to be reported immediately). Same with any kind of social support. Only the rich get to be fascist.
It's not just anti-controversy systems. It's deliberate censorship efforts by digital brownshirts.
The YC leadership is the people doing the collapsing. Theyve been living for Elon retweets and replies for a while
Source?
The front page of this site. Just look at what dang goes out of his way to make sure stays up.
Follow Garry Tan on X
Not everyone can do that, some of use were blocked by him before we'd ever heard his name.
> Follow Garry Tan on X
...do you have an example? I have no interest in following him.
Also, Gary Tan resembles Elon Musk perhaps only in their shared political ineptitude. (Unlike Musk, Tan seems to be aware of this limitation.)
I would love to see dang weigh in here just out of curiosity AND see how many people or if people are using the vouch mechanism if they can. Because this post doesn't have an insignificant upvote count and has actual conversation happening in the comments.
Don't use the vouch mechanism, it's a trap. I've had it disabled on my other account because I vouched "flame-bait" and thus I was revoked of the privileges, as dang explained to me via email, and I quote: "we took vouching privileges away from your account because you vouched for too many comments that were unsubstantive and/or flamebait and/or otherwise broke the site guidelines"
The Hacker News stance of "users can flag posts, it's none of our doing" I bet is a complete fabrication, and it's conveniently used by the moderators to hide hot-button topics. Not saying that's necessarily bad, but I feel the moderation team could be a little more honest with their "censorship" process, instead of trying to convince us it's all an organic, user-driven process.
You can vouch these posts at your own risk; just make sure you toe the party line, or you'll have the privilege revoked.
Do you still have "vouch" button (with no effect) or was it removed from UI?
> if people are using the vouch mechanism if they can
Nobody can vouch the post right now because it is not [dead]. At this point, if one wants the flag to be removed, the only way is to email hn@ycombinator.com for them to remove it manually at their discretion.
> Because this post doesn't have an insignificant upvote count and has actual conversation happening in the comments.
This isn't really relevant to the post being [flagged]. That happens when enough people click "flag" on the post. It will go to [flagged][dead] first, then people can vouch and it will drop them both, then, if more people flag it, it will become [flagged] again. It might be more complicated than that but I've seen that pattern a fair amount and I'm pretty sure the only way for a post to be [flagged] is for it to be, well, flagged.
Thanks for that I was mistaken about how the vouch process worked. I thought vouching could work for flagged as well since fagged can lead to removal.
[flagged]
There are a lot of articles I don't care for on HN. Outside straight advertising and scams, I don't flag them. That's life, stuff you don't want to see sometimes.
Sometimes I even open those articles wondering what everyone is talking about and sometimes it turns out to be worthwhile, sometimes not.
It's not the articles themselves. It's the quality of the commentary that comes from them. IMO these highly charged topics are very corrosive to the culture of a site. The people that post the hyper emotional comments on these posts and get rewarded in upvotes start doing the same thing throughout the site. Also in my experience if I post a low effort political comment I get much more karma from the crowd than a high effort technical post. What does that do for content incentives?
It's my belief that the recent growth in both user count and highly emotionally charged low quality content on this site is directly proportional to the amount of hot button issues on this site. A decent amount of folks use this site as yet another culture war front.
IMO these kinds of discussions need much, much more moderation than HN does to be productive. That's not a knock on HN moderation, it was never meant to be a structured debate platform. But taking a lightly moderated site and inundating it with hot button high emotion posts will not go well.
Yeah I'm not a fan of the emotional control in those topics either.
Having said that important topics tend to be that way, because they are important. The idea they shouldn't happen because of that is not a good route.
Isn’t it easier to just put your fingers in your ears, shut your eyes, and go la-la-la? Some of us prefer to see what’s going on, particularly when the HN community might be people making the situation worse. Not every bit of software is helpful, and “data”in the wrong hands can be fatal.
> Some of us prefer to see what’s going on
And you can see that anywhere else, why should every site talk about the same things?
Because American democracy is literally being dismantled as we speak???
But this event was already covered, there is no need to also have this opinion piece as well. You can just read this thread which isn't flagged:
https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=45282482
But many of us have several sources of news, and we use HN explicitly because it is not another outrage-based social news aggregator. I don’t want to see HN turn into Reddit.
I flagged this post as well. I don’t think HN needs political commentary on news unless it is particularly insightful. It’s explicitly against the guidelines. I didn’t flag Paul Krugman’s article today because, while political, it wasn’t just a political news softball. This doesn’t add much to the world’s overall understanding at this point.
Does reading the 6th article about Kimmel today change the fact that “democracy is literally being dismantled?”
That's literally every other site. The reason you can't see high quality HN style comments on those sites, is because they don't block stuff like this. And quality goes exactly where you'd expect. You can't get quality commentary on charged political topics on a mostly unmoderated online forum. You need dedicated groups and in depth moderation.
Like it or not life does go on regardless of political complex and so long as we're working, we need more than _just_ politics in our news feeds. That's what HN is.
I don’t use any other social media site. I use this one because I want to have meaningful discussions on things relating to hacker culture
And what could be more relevant to hacker culture than authoritarian takeovers? Is not the entire hacker spirit one that pushes back against someone who tells you that you can’t do X or Y?
How long until the administration turns its focus from late night hosts to hackers who are also publishing things the administration does not want you to know?
> hackers who are also publishing things the administration does not want you to know
As much as I'd like to tell you otherwise, whistleblowers have consistently been treated terribly even before we all were even born.
Yes, the situation is worse now in all sorts of ways, but it was already rock bottom when it came to the treatment of whistleblowers.
the topic of government censorship is highly relevant to technology, like it or not. the FCC was involved, so this is relevant to those who rely on FCC licenses.
You have to work hard to find a flagged thread. You also have to work hard to come into a tread you don't want to see and post something this compared to just hiding it.
[dead]
[flagged]
It s more than that. The fact that they did not conceal that they publicly coerced the tv station to fire him serves as a warning to other media.
Fire has a good statement on the FCC threat: https://www.thefire.org/news/fire-statement-fcc-threat-revok...
It is good to see there are principled organisations defending free speech.
Link in case the flaggers take it down: https://www.theverge.com/policy/781148/jimmy-kimmel-charlie-...
ABC/Disney made the choice to pull Kimmel, bent at the knee in fear of losing their broadcast license. That decision itself is one worth questioning...what if they didn't? Would the FCC actually do it? If they did, how many lawsuits would come their way since that's the greatest infringement of the First Amendment the US has ever witnessed? Wouldn't ABC, the public, and the First Amendment win out massively at the end?
What if that bit of libertarian anarchy played out?
ABC ignores the backlash and threats, and keeps Kimmel on the air, maybe even encouraging speech against those bullies and hatred. Then FCC pulls their license, but ABC keeps broadcasting. Their pirate broadcasts would escalate both sides even further: stoking a great groundswell of support for the freedom of speech from liberals/the left, a storm of legal battles representing We The People v. the Government would form, and a massive (possibly violent) outcry from far-right conservatives and nationalists. What happens then would redefine our nation. Would corporations back ABC and capitalism retake the reins, and grassroots efforts steer the misguided Right back to normalcy? Or would an explosive sabotage and a bloody battle over the fate of our nation take place before any progress, or regression, would happen?
As much of a work of fiction as that sounds, it's almost more believable given the timeline we're already on.
I can't believe he got cancelled for such a mild statement.
When you get cancelled by the goverment it's censorship.
The right wing has exposed their hypocrisy on free speech and cancel culture for the whole world to see. It was never about principles, it was always just self-serving agitprop.
All you had to do was look at Reddit or BlueSky after the shooting; and I think they popped a nerve.
In the meantime, the CEOs of Discord, Reddit, Twitch, and Steam have been casually "invited" to Congress to have a little chat this October. Personally, I'm expecting Discord's CEO (considering his background at McKinsey, need for blame shifting, spotting the most vulnerable person in the room) to make Huffman look like an idiot and start acting like a Redditor. There's no way Huffman manages to overcome his lack of interview experience, 20 years of Reddit brain, and decade of being the CEO responsible for everything, when needled.
facebook, apple, palantir, twitter have all bent the knee or are otherwise locked down by leadership -- they will tow the line.
these are the next steps in locking down the online discussion realm.
they will eventually go after places like tumblr and roblox next.
So Hegseth should have been pulled from Fox News after laughing at jokes about Paul Pelosi's attacker, right? He should have been forced to resign in shame?
But the Twitter files!
The twitter files were also bad. Not as bad as the stuff Trump is doing, but still bad.
> twitter files were also bad. Not as bad as the stuff Trump is doing
The Twitter files were ambiguous. The FCC chair publicly threatening to pull a network’s licenses over their content is not.
Anyone who voiced up about the Twitter files who hasn’t about Carr is a partisan hack.
Absolutely. This is pure fascism. But let's not make the mistake of pretending there are zero faults on the other side, even if of smaller magnitude compared to this.
I was very hesitant to comment on this, due to the current political climate - but I’m going to do so anyhow, and ask that you keep in mind that while I associate more with the right than the left, I’m an Anarcho-Capitalist. I’m an outsider to both sides, and my intent here is to share an observation because I believe it’s relevant.
From what I’m seeing in right-wing spaces, this is much more than hypocrisy. Much of the right has made the explicit decision to abandon their principles because they believe that the left will ultimately attempt to destroy them when they regain the White House.
Whether that belief is accurate or not, they seem to be willing to give Trump significantly more latitude to suppress the left as a result of it.
Interestingly, I have beliefs pretty opposite to yours - Titoist would best describe them.
I believe Biden should've aggressively suppressed the right to avoid the exact scenario we now find ourselves in.
Imo they are proving that belief right.
Interesting!
The right has a very similar corresponding argument; their predictions have also been coming true.
I wonder if that’s a side effect of the current political discourse or the intention of whatever or whomever is driving it.
The most enduring quality of fascism so far is how pervasively stupid it is. I fear for the future.
We have to fight against this.
Man, I lean right. Always will even if I fall off a cliff. But the main reason I do is the Republic and Constitution. Free speech is sacred, and I think Jimmy is a wanker. But I'll be damned if I silence the guy, or don't defend his right to be a wanker. So yeah, this is going to dark places.
Then there is a lot of work to do. In Europe you would be brushed of with "hate is no opinion". A culture that was nurtured by the loudest opposition to Trump.
This is one of the reasons that large-scale corporate ownership of media is very bad for citizens, and very good for oppressive governments. The FCC can make one phone call to one powerful person running one large corporate entity. If the same couple corporations own all the media (almost where we are today), it’s trivial for the government to shut down one voice.
ABC doesn’t give a shit about truth, fairness, journalism, or any such fuzzy concepts. They want short-term profits and long-term media monopolies, so cancelling one comedian or another makes no difference to them.
This is what fascism actually is — a blending of corporate and government power for the benefit of both, and against the interests of citizens.
It's almost like the dictators don't choose the economic form of monopolies or oligopolies, but that these mono and oligopolies almost have to lead to government overreach. Like you said it is too easy not to govern with these knobs of they are there.
SCOTUS ruled 6-3 last year in Murthy v. Missouri that the states lacked standing to sue the government for first amendment violations from pressuring speech platforms to moderate. I'm afraid that decision will effectively immunize the FCC from pressuring ABC in this case. The states were found not to have the necessary injury, causation, or redressability. Alito, Thomas and Gorsuch dissented.
In that case, the plaintiffs lacked standing because they hadn't shown that there was an actual nexus between government action and platform action. In this case, there is no question: the government is openly demanding that the media do this.
The tech industry largely thrives on basic freedoms, especially freedom of speech, and on university innovation, both of which are under direct attack.
Those who cry that these are "no concern" of tech and Hacker News won't be happy when their projects and companies are shut down in order to do eugenics "research" or to turn their work into ways of sequestering and managing inmates of what are already concentration camps[0]
Hacker News and the industry are reduced to rubber stamps and prison administrators when basic freedoms are lost.
[0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IBM_and_the_Holocaust
Nobody believes Trumps opposition to be concerned about freedom of speech or that they value it.
For a historical reference of another famous censorship, here’s the front page of the NY Times in Feb 1939, reporting that Goebbels ended the career of 5 actors for “witticisms” made about the Nazis: https://www.nytimes.com/1939/02/04/archives/goebbels-ends-ca...
>Goebbels today ended the professional careers of five "Aryan" actors ... on the grounds that “in their public appearances they displayed a lack of any positive attitude toward National Socialism and therewith caused grave annoyance...
seems quite similar to Brendan Carr having Kimmel removed for a lack of positive attitude towards Trump and MAGA.
He didn't even criticize Kirk. The criticism was levied against Trump / The Republican party.
one and the same
I remember in Murthy v. Missouri you had lawyers and politicans on the right arguing that even just a phone call to a reporter or social media company qualified as coercion. Even a few right wing SCOTUS judges agreed with them ...
Now we have every branch of government deployed by right wing politicians targeting individuals speech.
We have them placed as employees in news organizations, required by the government, as "bias monitors". https://www.msnbc.com/opinion/msnbc-opinion/trump-fcc-cbs-ne...
We have the government forcing media companies to sell to their cronies ...
We have the FCC chairman making threats taking issue with speech they don't like.
Trump threatening reporters with investigation because they asked a question he didn't like.
I guess they're ok with that as long as it's their people.
Executive Order 14149 of January 20, 2025 by Donald J. Trump: https://www.federalregister.gov/documents/2025/01/28/2025-01...
Restoring Freedom of Speech and Ending Federal Censorship
By the authority vested in me as President by the Constitution and the laws of the United States of America, and section 301 of title 3, United States Code, it is hereby ordered as follows:
Section 1. Purpose. The First Amendment to the United States Constitution, an amendment essential to the success of our Republic, enshrines the right of the American people to speak freely in the public square without Government interference. Over the last 4 years, the previous administration trampled free speech rights by censoring Americans’ speech on online platforms, often by exerting substantial coercive pressure on third parties, such as social media companies, to moderate, deplatform, or otherwise suppress speech that the Federal Government did not approve. Under the guise of combatting ‘‘misinformation,’’ ‘‘disinformation,’’ and ‘‘malinformation,’’ the Federal Government infringed on the constitutionally protected speech rights of American citizens across the United States in a manner that advanced the Government’s preferred narrative about significant matters of public debate. Government censorship of speech is intolerable in a free society.
Sec. 2. Policy. It is the policy of the United States to:
(a) secure the right of the American people to engage in constitutionally protected speech;
(b) ensure that no Federal Government officer, employee, or agent engages in or facilitates any conduct that would unconstitutionally abridge the free speech of any American citizen;
(c) ensure that no taxpayer resources are used to engage in or facilitate any conduct that would unconstitutionally abridge the free speech of any American citizen; and
(d) identify and take appropriate action to correct past misconduct by the Federal Government related to censorship of protected speech.
Sec. 3. Ending Censorship of Protected Speech. (a) No Federal department, agency, entity, officer, employee, or agent may act or use any Federal resources in a manner contrary to section 2 of this order.
Have you read the North Korean constitution?
ARTICLE 13. Citizens of the D.P.R.K. have freedom of speech, the press, association, assembly, mass meetings and demonstration. Citizens are guaranteed the right to organize and unite in democratic political parties, trade unions, cooperative organizations, sports, cultural, technical, scientific and other societies.
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The FCC directly threatened to cancel broadcasting licenses of ABC affiliates unless they removed the show. This is the most direct version of government mass-media censorship I can immediately recall.
How is it not, when the government threatens media so they change their stance? That's the textbook definition of censorship.
https://www.foxnews.com/media/fcc-chair-levels-threat-agains...
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Litotes#Examples
Two nots
oh he was being funny , not not which means yes...lol natural speech: "not not" = a soft "yes"
It is.
Two nots!
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Folks, it’s time to burn in all down. We have the power. We have to, enough is enough.
Unless the innocuous quote in tfa is what was said (I'm not sure I could believe it if so), can someone please post an exact quote of what all the fuss is about?
That's the quote.
https://youtu.be/-j3YdxNSzTk?t=123
Kimmel: We hit some new lows over the weekend with the MAGA gang desperately trying to characterize this kid who murdered Charlie Kirk as anything other than one of them and doing everything they can to score political points from it.
Kimmel: In between the fingerpointing there was uh grieving on Friday. The White House flew the flags at half staff which got some criticism but on a human level you can see how hard the president is taking this.
Reporter: "My condolences on the loss of your friend Charlie Kirk. May I ask sir personally, how are you holding up over the last day and a half, sir?"
POTUS47: "I think very good. And by the way, right there you see all the trucks. They've just started construction of the new ballroom for the White House, which is something they've been trying to get, as you know, for about 150 years, and it's going to be a beauty."
Kimmel: Yes. He's at the fourth stage of grief, construction.
Thank you.